PSYCHODYNAMIC THERAPY
Psychodynamic theory and therapy is the oldest of the four most prominent and scientifically recognised approaches to psychotherapy.
It is based on the psychodynamic/psychoanalytic theory contributed to by Sigmund Freud, Carl Gustav Jung, Alfred Adler, Erik Erikson, Melanie Klein, Anna Freud and too many more to name them all here.
Psychodynamic theory does not only provide the basis for psychodynamic therapy to treat mental illness but also aims to capture the development, structure and function of the human psyche.
Therefore, it can be useful to anyone who wants to understand themselves better, live a more meaningful life - or just be fascinated by some of the most elaborated (and controversial) theories psychology has to offer.
VIDEO 2 :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6eel0K24MQ
MORE ABOUT SESSIONS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy6KfsR4H8U
0:24
okay hi Phil oh yeah so given that this is our first session I thought perhaps
0:30
I'd start say a little bit about the way I work about how the sessions going to
0:36
be constructed and then we'll get onto the issues that are bothering you does that sound okay okay so thank you for
0:44
your letter your referral letter which tells me a little bit about why you've
0:50
come but it's important that we set a few kind of ground rules and kind of boundaries around the work so what I
0:58
want to tell you is that anything in that or that we talk about is confidential okay
1:04
there are times when I might need to talk to gp's people like that but that
1:11
would only ever happen with your written permission okay my notes are kept safe I write very kind
1:19
of factual notes so just a kind of very brief description of what we've talked about and any particular issues that
1:27
come up and you have access to those notes through me if you want to see them okay otherwise they're confidential and
1:37
the only time I would break confidentiality is if I was seriously concerned about your well-being or about
1:44
the safety and well-being of anybody else okay if you had a bit of counseling before
1:50
uh yeah yeah many many years ago okay okay what do you remember of that I
1:58
found it a really useful experience really just to just to talk things
2:04
through about ten sessions
2:12
okay okay and did that end because it felt like it was enough yeah that's fine
2:18
yeah okay the way I work may or may not be different that's if I just tell you a
2:24
little bit about the kind of things that I'm interested in and how I imagine the sessions to go so one of these is the
2:32
sessions of 15 minutes long and you don't need to worry about the time that's my responsibility
2:37
yes but I would like us to meet on a regular basis and I think you know in
2:44
your referral we talked about maybe we meeting weekly for say six sessions six
2:50
to eight sessions then we can review yeah so if we agree to meet at this time
2:55
every week for the next six weeks yeah
3:00
the kind of things I'm interested in are relationships
3:06
so our relationship I'm interested in how we work together and whether that mirrors anything of what you're
3:13
experiencing in other relationships either with people or maybe things you
3:18
know your relationship with work maybe and I'm also kind of interested in in
3:25
your early relationships so how those may have impacted on how things are now
3:31
okay I mean we'll kind of see where it goes yeah but what I'd really like in
3:37
the sessions is for you to just talk about anything anything that comes to mind really you know if you have a
3:44
particular dream or a kind of you know daydream or thoughts that you kind of mull over in the week you know bring
3:51
them here and maybe we can use those to help us understand what's going on yeah
3:57
yeah okay great and if any any point you're feeling you know uncomfortable
4:02
with me or with the sessions be really helpful if we could find a way of talking about that okay all right so
4:12
should we begin with the issues that you you put down on your referral and the
4:18
issues that you're kind of bringing today yeah okay so what's going on for you what's going on for me right then I
4:24
was I'm feeling a bit anxious to get started yeah what actually the things
4:32
that I'm coming with is that recently I've been
4:37
feeling a bit stressed and anxious about about things in general which is I I
4:47
think it's unusual for me right and I'm aware of the fact that I
4:55
that link to that is that I will take things on and I have things to do and
5:04
I'm really good at putting those off or putting some of the things off okay so
5:11
sorry I I see that those that those are connected yeah okay and you also
5:18
connected feeling a bit anxious here which I guess is another one of those things that you said you'd do and
5:23
actually know his perhaps a bit unnerving yeah yeah absolutely so
5:29
meeting somebody new for the first time and in this setting is anxiety-provoking yeah yeah and maybe that's similar to
5:37
what you're saying is you take on these things you agreed to do these things but actually what you end up feeling is quite anxious about it yeah yeah yeah
5:43
yeah okay you also said this was a bit new when when does it feel like things
5:49
have changed I probably probably a
5:58
couple of maybe six weeks ago yeah I think that was quite recent clearly when
6:06
I would ask the I I'd get symptoms of
6:14
not exactly panic not that I don't see mister I'm not I don't have a panic
6:20
attack sure but I can I can feel like a rising sort of panic here yeah yeah and like
6:29
then then that can feel you've ended up feeling a bit sort of nausea s-- there
6:36
and and and you know having to really sort of breathe to just sort of calm
6:41
down I'm not quite feeling that at the moment oh that's but that happened as I say
6:51
probably about six weeks ago happen for a couple of weeks and then just kind of leveled off again and that was the first
6:58
time I'd ever experienced okay do you remember that very first time having
7:08
difficulty remembering the the very first time okay very time that comes to
7:13
mind I could think of the time that's representative of that okay what what what came to mind just feeling
7:25
overwhelmed to think just being aware of the fact that I needed to go and do things and some of the things were you
7:34
know things that maybe I put off I'm just feeling just feeling as though
7:43
there was overwhelmed too much going on and yet when I sat down and tried to work it out because I like to be able to
7:49
do that I like to be in to say this is connected to this sure when I tried to
7:55
put my finger on was the one specific thing I I couldn't do that it was just
8:02
there was a collection of small things which when I looked at them each in turn
8:07
they were all manageable but the collective seemed to be a bit a bit
8:13
overwhelming really okay and these things that were felt overwhelming were
8:19
they all placed him you know to do with one aspect of your life or is this a kind of general I think that they
8:29
probably when I think about it there
8:35
were probably aspects of work where they were but there but it but it's not it's
8:40
not exclusive to work this there's there's there's other things you know there's this things within the home they
8:47
learn for it just just very practical things like maybe you know doing some some DIY at home
8:56
that I really should have done you know that's a very simple and you know something that sounds to me like a
9:02
really trivial example but but it's yeah but what you're saying is it's not one thing for the individual doing the bit
9:11
of DIY is not problematic no but feels problematic because all these other
9:17
things there's so many of them yeah okay so is that something that feels new that
9:22
you've taken on so it's such an array of things or is that something you've done in the past I think I'm very good at
9:29
taking on things in the and I've done that in the past but I've I suppose that
9:35
they've always been manageable I've always managed I've always managed to
9:42
work through them even though I might have in my head a list of things to do they've always been
9:49
they've always been achievable and they've always been
9:56
they've always been sort of I'm just struggling a bit for the words yeah I
10:04
suppose it's a matter of me sort of I've always managed to break them down and just deal with it with these things one
10:11
at a time and so they haven't been overwhelming but the but that I suppose that I can identify that I'm very good
10:18
at saying yes I'll do something and especially if it's a few but if it's a
10:24
few months down the line and then I can I'll say yes to them and then all of a sudden what was a few months down the
10:31
line suddenly is you know next week oh sure or today okay okay so that that
10:38
thing of saying yes there's something you really resonate with and it feels
10:44
like that's that's part of who you are yeah yeah yeah okay so do you make any
10:51
sense of that what's your understanding of why you say yes
10:58
I think that I say yes because I find it
11:08
difficult to say no okay and I suppose that sort of linked in
11:13
with that is you know I don't like to
11:21
sort of let people down I don't I don't want to disappoint people so my guess is that would be very
11:30
alive in our meetings that there'd be a part of you I guess that we'd want to
11:37
get it right Oh wouldn't want to let me down maybe yeah yeah yeah I can see that
11:44
yeah okay yeah yeah okay so that's just for us to kind of notice and recognize really because there may be times in
11:52
here where you do want to challenge something I say or you know maybe you
11:57
don't want to turn up one week or I'll go do something else what might that feel like right to not make the
12:04
appointment or to write not get it right yeah yeah whatever
12:10
hmm does that bring anything up for you
12:15
that idea of letting someone down or say no yeah as soon as you said that as soon
12:22
as I thought about it that just thought that just doesn't feel that doesn't sit well with me that doesn't feel comfortable okay yeah so it would be
12:29
really difficult to do that yeah yeah so it must be very hard for you to say no to things even when they feel like it's
12:36
another demand yes yeah yeah
12:42
I think I can do it right but it doesn't
12:49
it doesn't it's hard right it's hard for me to do okay to say a bit about
12:59
I
13:08
I don't quite know where to go with that yeah okay I feel so it's really
13:16
uncomfortable or a bit I feel I feel a bit stuck there okay yeah okay yeah so
13:22
that might really be helpful for us to see that that's the place where it it feels stuck that that it's difficult to
13:29
even imagine saying no to somebody refusing to do things in a kind of easy
13:38
way that it would be something quite challenging yes I have to kind of
13:45
prepare myself yeah it's far easier for me to say yeah go on I'll do it yeah that's fine put my
13:51
name down or I'll take that arm okay whereas if I yeah I'll have to get to
13:57
the point where I'm thinking oh there's I've just got too much there's too much
14:03
going on for me to actually I suppose to get myself to the point where I can turn around to somebody and say no I can't do
14:12
that and so it's the easier option is to say yeah except I guess what you're telling
14:20
is it's not necessarily the easiest option in the long run no it's no good
14:26
because then I end up in that place where I ended up taking too much arm and
14:32
then you can't really sort of I feel as though then I then I feel as I'll really
14:38
be letting somebody down if I say yes just to something yeah sure and then I
14:44
then I would really gonna be letting somebody down she said it seems I'm sitting here and I'm talking about it it
14:52
logically it seems it'd be far easier if I just when they first asked me you don't say no no but it may be almost
15:02
habitual that you say yes like that's because a real patent for you yeah yeah
15:08
okay would do ha does that fit in at all with any of your kind of early
15:14
experiences of life does anything come to mind school family
15:23
what's come to mind there is that is that I was my strategy for forgetting
15:31
through secondary school I went to I'm believing the do the the standard sort
15:39
of you know the small primary school I'm getting going into secondary school which was a comprehensive in Liverpool
15:44
and suddenly I was I remember the first day standing there and just being I
15:52
suppose overwhelmed by by the size of the other new place I've got to and I
15:59
think as a strategy for coping fairly early on and the in in that school was
16:06
with the kind of it was to sort of keep
16:11
your head down and sort of just get on
16:17
with it and I suppose maybe the connection there might be just to sort of be is to not be
16:26
resistant to stuff and be compliant with stuff but I don't know whether that's
16:34
right but certainly as you were talking about there's early memories that that's a very powerful memory of me that that's
16:41
the way I got through secondary school if you you know if you keep your head down then then people won't target you okay
16:51
yeah okay sounds like it was quite hard to school it was I suppose that looking
17:01
back on it I I don't see it quite like that but I guess at the time when I was eleven I stand in there yeah Aminu
17:09
blazer then that was a scary place yeah and I guess that's the bit that
17:16
feels really relevant is that that was your experience your your experience of
17:22
going to that school on that first day was that it was big and scary and
17:27
somehow another you needed to find a method of staying safe I'm keeping a head down
17:35
being compliant saying yes was what happened yeah yeah what about in your
17:44
home was your home a place where you could say no
18:01
the memories I have of home was that was a very that the home was a very safe
18:06
place I think that
18:16
but but I don't think I actually I don't think I said no but I don't think it was I don't think I was I don't think there
18:28
was anything there that would that I was a wet that I'm aware of no I would have been concerned about hmm
18:37
like I say it was it felt a very safe place a very loving place so I didn't
18:46
get its all shouted at mm-hmm but but I
18:51
don't know whether that's because at that point I'd already develop this sort
18:57
of you know just keep quiet mmm I've done really every thought that
19:04
far back okay yeah yeah yeah all made that connection
19:13
and and there might not be a connection yeah there may be other may may not be I
19:20
mean that the connection might be that home did feel safer and it wasn't a place where you were avoiding conflict
19:26
so maybe going to the secondary school was the stark contrast to that right a
19:32
place that really didn't feel safe yeah that feels more like it yeah and somehow
19:42
or another that method of coping yeah of keep your head down just say yes has
19:49
stayed with you yeah yeah even though the danger is probably less than yes
19:56
yeah yeah yes remember we're colleague
20:05
many years ago said that I sort of had this how did he describe it because he was quite an active person
20:12
and sort of standing up and shouting or standing up and making his point felt
20:17
and I think that my he described me as having a cloak of invisibility the the
20:25
you know that I just found a level to sort of get on with and to drift through
20:32
as opposed okay yeah which I kind of took at the time as a sort of a
20:37
compliment to think right how about it
20:45
looks like you're questioning that yeah yeah it's if that's kind of connected to
20:51
this they're not wanting to sort of you know not wanting to make ripples and
20:57
just a sort of and therefore taking on stuff and not saying no to people then I
21:02
don't think that that sounds like it's not it's not oh I've always seen it as a
21:11
fairly useful strategy well now maybe that maybe it's not if that's well maybe
21:17
it's both because I think that you know what you described happening to you a
21:23
really quite young age at school was that you actually found a method of coping that
21:29
actually did work it sounds like you didn't get picked on at school did manage to find a way through it and
21:35
actually that served you very well yeah most of the time but perhaps what you're
21:42
saying to me is it's not serving you so well right now right yeah yeah
21:49
maybe there's something that's changed in your life at the moment or the situation has changed whereby that
21:54
method of coping is actually becoming a problem well yes yeah yeah I can see I can see
22:02
how that connects and I can see how that what's going off of me at the moment is
22:08
not good in this sense there I'm getting to the point where yeah I've been there
22:15
relatively sort of anxiety free and you know I might see feeling as on yeah
22:21
that's the dots not what's going on for me at the moment yeah okay so should we
22:28
go back to that six weeks ago because it felt like that was really relevant that something really changed for you all
22:35
right at that point yeah and what you're saying is it's not clear what it was in
22:40
particular had you taken on more than normal
22:52
I'm really not aware that I take none anymore than usual and and when I as I
22:58
said when I just kind of sat down and tried to work it out I couldn't I couldn't put my finger on
23:06
any my life as I said earlier I can't put my finger on one thing it was just it just seemed like a collection of
23:13
things hmm really so I'm I'm hard push to think is there something with
23:18
something specific happening
23:28
maybe unconnected i mean sometimes it can be something like an anniversary or
23:34
a birthday or you know a whole range of things but it feels like something
23:39
shifted for you yeah
23:48
hmm all that all that springs to mind
23:54
there is that I've been working at the
24:02
same place for 25 years so and that
24:07
happened around that time that it was
24:12
that it was acknowledged there are that I beam that I've been working get the
24:17
same place for 25 years and and so I and
24:22
I don't I dunno where that came from I don't know I mean apart from you got she's saying kind of verse because I
24:29
really can't think that that is necessarily connected to me feeling anxious but it might be
24:34
sounds like a significant event yeah yeah was that you know golden handshake
24:40
or something you know yeah yes yeah and you're saying it was acknowledged it was
24:48
but I was it was I think part of me
24:54
thinks that it wasn't very well acknowledged maybe and and I remember at
24:59
the time feeling like I saw I had a
25:05
question over whether I was actually being valued and even as to say that now
25:13
that kind of the desert is it a I feel an emotional connection to that I
25:21
thought that kind of feels you know feels like there's something going on
25:32
and and yet how that connects or doesn't
25:40
it from you know this this whole thing about you know a significant event not
25:47
particularly feeling valued by the response I got further and and we get anxious well I guess one
25:57
connection that we could make quite quickly I guess is something about what you're saying is that you you do say yes
26:03
you do take on work yeah but actually from your perspective you know you you
26:11
give what you've got to give and and there may be some connection in in that that that actually you know you've given
26:18
as much as you can you've taken on all these things and yet somehow it doesn't feel like it's quite valued enough so
26:27
maybe it leaves you a bit invisible
26:37
does that was the night yeah don't what
26:45
I do with it okay yeah yeah well I guess
26:50
maybe you don't need to do anything with it maybe just acknowledging that feels
26:55
like a step forward because what you're saying is this event happened and it almost feels like you sort of felt it
27:02
and pushed it away so when I mentioned was there anything significant you know
27:08
that came to mind and and as you said there's an emotional response to it so
27:14
it is significant there is something that's really important and it's fairly recent yeah yeah how would you have
27:23
liked to have been recognized
27:44
no idea is that weird I don't know hmm
27:58
I think part of me thinks not maybe not at all you know
28:17
well that's interesting I don't know where to go with that I don't know I I
28:23
don't know never thought never never
28:29
thought about it and even as I'm sitting here now try and think about it I just don't like I just have no idea yeah yeah
28:40
okay I may be that going blank just tells us that it's a bit difficult to
28:45
think about you know I mean I think certainly my experiences when feelings
28:51
are kind of powerful it is really hard to think and I'm also aware that this
28:59
isn't our only session so there's time for us to come back to that if it feels open yeah yeah and some of these things
29:06
that we're kind of linking together you know maybe you'll go away and Mull that over and and it will make more sense
29:13
yeah maybe not yeah but but I guess you know it what feels really helpful is the
29:20
fact that what you have allowed to happen is just thoughts to come to your mind right yeah and what you're saying
29:28
is you know why did that thought come in why why that orig but it feels important
29:34
mm-hmm yeah something about being recognized in a positive way which your
29:41
cloak of invisibility perhaps denies you yeah is the negative
29:48
part of being not recognized and being able to get through the difficult beds
30:04
yeah do you want to say a little bit
30:09
more about you mentioned the word procrastination earlier yes okay and
30:19
that's linked to all these things that I say I'll take on I think there's I think that
30:26
procrastination kind of sits in lots of
30:32
areas of my life really there's things I'd like to there's things I'd like to do um I think I'd
30:39
like to do mm-hmm and then and then find reasons not to do them and so there's
30:46
obvious things when I sort of say to other people that I'll do something and
30:51
then I'll be in a situation where I have to do it or or will say no but there's
30:59
things that I also kind of expect from myself this like that of things that I
31:06
want to achieve for me some of which I do and some of which I push off and and
31:16
I suppose when I put them off either end I thought thing I ever really get myself
31:24
a hard time about it but it's just another something else that I've put off and I would I feel as I'd like to do an
31:32
example of that might be
31:39
years ago I thought I felt as I was really quite creative yeah I yeah I'd
31:46
sit and draw I play guitar right right
31:56
and I still play guitar and and I still sort of know still sort of promised
32:04
myself I'm gonna sit down and and draw but I think that sort of laughingly I've
32:10
I say to myself ah that's the kind of thing I'll do when I retire I'll take up watercolors when I retire and so I
32:18
always manage to sort of put something off and yet there's part of me that
32:23
thinks that's really important hmm that it's really important for me to hmm do
32:30
these things for me and then I don't do them and I just feel and then I feel
32:37
kind of I don't know what I'm not sure what I feel about that really I feel a
32:46
bit sort of the word that springs to mind is I feel a bit disconnected
32:58
disconnected to to a path of me I
33:04
suppose
33:13
and I don't know where that's coming from either but the other left that's what's in my mind at the moment can you
33:18
describe that part of you I suppose it's the I suppose I just describe it as
33:29
added earlier honest or sort of a creative the creative side or the creative part hmm
33:35
it's the part that gives me
33:48
it's a part that I've feel as I've neglected as opposed so maybe a
33:56
neglected part of me mm-hmm and as I say
34:04
that that feels a bit uncomfortable as well where does not feel uncomfortable
34:11
give me my body mmm that feels
34:23
it sort of sits somewhere it just sits somewhere here mm-hmm I think it's hard to mmm how to describe
34:34
that nice but I just feel as a suppose a
34:41
bit maybe that bits a bit sort of a part of me that I've that I've sort of left
34:47
behind or lost hmm and I would like to
34:52
reconnect to old me yeah reclaim yeah just sort of get back in touch with and
34:57
and and I feel as though that's important to leave me for me because it will make me sort of more more whole
35:05
more rounded it's almost like I put that
35:10
on one side to get on with other stuff okay and the other stuff is probably
35:19
work yeah yeah do you enjoy your work I
35:25
enjoy parts of my work yeah yeah yeah but obviously at the time when I'm
35:33
feeling quite overwhelmed with women's a bit then I dunno I kind of don't yeah
35:38
yeah yeah so there's I mean I guess if I
35:45
reflect something that that's going on for me is I keep going back to this cloak really right you know I think it's
35:52
a really interesting image isn't it this cloak of invisibility right and and and
35:58
the reason it's there in my mind is cuz I'm thinking or what does a cloak do and it and yes it would enable you to not be
36:05
seen and go through yeah but also maybe it covers up something right and the
36:13
things you're talking about being creative you know making music making art and those kind of things you know
36:21
that they're kind of things that are seen aren't they alright are an expression of yourself somehow they've
36:28
been covered up so this other part of you that
36:33
gets on with it I think is what you said yeah is able to do that yeah hmm but it
36:42
feels now split off you'd like that back yes yeah and I guess having that back
36:49
partly involved saying no well that's
36:54
right it would be I did the same no would free up the free up more time yeah
37:01
but then I don't know whether I would
37:07
make use of that time but whether I would just sit and procrastinate and and
37:14
not you know find reasons not to do that okay yeah okay so it feels like you're
37:19
suggesting that that actually there's something within you that both wants the
37:25
creative bit but also does things to prevent it from happening yeah yeah
37:38
there's no reason why I can't yeah there's no reason why I can't find time
37:44
it's it's you know there's you know I can go and I'm quite happily in sit in
37:49
front of the television when I could actually be doing something more creative so what comes up for you if I
37:56
suggest you know that you you you dive into that creativity
38:13
I feel like
38:20
I think it feels a bit risky
38:29
like uh so it's you know I used to do it so long ago I don't really know was I
38:34
could do it anymore and so to actually try it might mean that I realized that I
38:47
can't do it or can't do it as well as I like to think I'd be able to do it
38:53
mm-hmm I think there's an element of that in there so fear of not getting it
38:59
right huh yeah mm-hmm so it's easy for me to stick with things
39:04
that I know I can get right hmm then to take on something which is you know I
39:11
might get well you can't technically get a creative piece wrong but it may not be
39:18
as as good as I would like it to be mmm
39:23
so that's where the self critic lies that there's a sense that you would have
39:30
an expectation of yourself and if you didn't live up to it mmm that would be
39:36
difficult yeah yeah hmm is that critical
39:41
I've in them in your work
39:52
or in other aspects of your life maybe
39:58
doesn't be it doesn't really feel as though it's there my work okay
40:05
did you say that like
40:16
in fact part of me feels though it's it's it's not exactly the opposite but
40:23
part of me feels as though I'm quite happy getting things wrong I I you know
40:32
I actually I'm quite happy believing that that that's that that just gives me
40:37
some you know some opportunities to do something better if I had to get something wrong you know I would learn
40:42
from mistakes that yeah it kind of thing
40:48
and yet that doesn't apply when I'm thinking about so maybe wanting to do a
40:53
better sit down and draw or paint yeah so really display they're really odd
41:00
that's a very odd thing doesn't make
41:06
sense to me at all hmm have you realized that before no no no and yeah I'm really
41:23
I'm really yeah when I say to me I've
41:30
always said to my kids when they if they do something wrong if the first time
41:35
they do something wrong I never tell them off when they do something wrong they they probably hate me for it but my my mantra is what did
41:42
you learn from that hmm yeah and then if they do it wrong the second time then then they can get shouted at because
41:48
they haven't learned something from it and so I'm actually think I'm very open to this idea of get you know get it
41:55
wrong and you learn something from it yeah and yet that is exactly what's not
42:01
going on when it comes to sitting down and being creative hmm which I just I'm
42:08
not brand new to me right absolutely I've never thought of never made that never thought about it never made
42:15
that's I can say that Justin's made that
42:21
that really just genuinely doesn't make sense to me hmm yeah that I'd have to get something
42:27
absolutely right first time over here not having done it for 15 years
42:32
mm-hmm and yet over here I'm quite happy to make mistakes hmm acknowledge them hmm to feel so
42:40
there's something very precious about the creative aspect of you whereas it
42:51
feels like an your work your bit more robust you're able to to get it wrong
43:13
suppose have more confidence in the work and in other areas of my life being
43:20
creative is while I only well I while I would only be doing that for me anyway
43:31
but I don't feel confident that is
43:39
they're doing it just for me Hector do you think because it sounds like you do
43:46
a lot of things for other people in they're saying yes I'm taking on the
43:51
things what you said was you didn't want to let anybody down or disappoint
43:57
anybody I could I can see that I hadn't really haven't really thought about that
44:12
that's me that's gone like just kind of I've just blanked that's I don't know
44:17
what happened there in that sense but there was I was following that train of thought and then I just lost it again I
44:31
think there's something that that you've really kind of demonstrated here which is that you know those moments when when
44:37
we we stopped being able to think yeah are often moments where it actually
44:43
feels like something's really resonating and and I think sometimes you just have to sit with that mm-hmm
44:49
yeah we could rush in with all sorts of ideas about here but that really might not be helpful yeah yeah we're coming
44:56
towards the end of the session and angry and it feels as though it's been
45:02
incredibly full right yeah yeah my experience of the session yeah as if
45:08
there's been you know we've been to school we've been you know many places
45:13
really and I guess what will happen over the week is that some of that will kind of you know you're mulling over
45:19
or it might spark things in your imagination it might impact on your sleep and your dreams you know and and
45:27
what I would encourage you to do is just just let that happen yeah bring back what feels relevant to
45:34
the next session right and we'll see if we can make some more sense out of things right okay
45:39
it's been a real pleasure getting three years yeah is that is that food how long have we
45:45
been talking we've been talking for 50 minutes Wow no does it feel like there's
45:51
less I feel like that too like it's gone quickly yeah yeah okay great okay so
45:58
I'll see you the same time next week thank you
46:08
xena thank you so much for agreeing to be filmed today and if you're willing I
46:13
was just hoping to ask you a few questions about your approach and the session that you've just delivered okay
46:19
first of all can you tell me a little bit about your approach to counselling and psychotherapy yeah well my training
46:28
is psychoanalytic like a dynamic and my approach differs in some ways depending
46:35
on the setting so for example if I'm working in my private practice seeing
46:41
people for several years yeah my technique as it were would be much less
46:48
active yeah so I'd be much more willing to sit back and although I'm very much
46:55
interested in the relationship with the client I would probably say a lot less and ask a lot less questions and would
47:04
have an awareness that if something came up you know I don't need to make an interpretation about that until the
47:09
clients ready so I would you know be much slower in a sense and be very much
47:14
more working on a kind of relational basis in other work that I do are the
47:21
settings that I work the work is much briefer so maybe six to ten sessions
47:26
that kind of thing and in that work I'm a lot more active and I think a lot of modern psychodynamic therapists are a
47:33
lot more active really so the things that as I said in the beginning of the
47:41
session really the things that I'm particularly interested in our relationships so I'm interested in
47:48
people's relationships with their families with their current people in their lives I'm interested in their
47:54
relationship with me and how that plays out and how they might work with me and
48:01
I'm really interested in their relationship with themselves so just as happened in in the session what people
48:09
often realize is that they would describe you know different parts of themselves yeah you know there's a bit
48:14
of me that really likes doing things and there's a bit of me that's really scared of getting it wrong and we have a conflict with that
48:21
really interested in internal relational conflicts certainly you know my ideas
48:28
about therapy and counseling are that and we can't change the outside world and actually the outside world isn't
48:35
really necessarily the problem the problem is how we feel about that and
48:41
our feelings are their internal relationships and usually people come to counseling when there's a conflict some
48:47
sort of internal conflict so answer the question yeah that's that's brilliant you mentioned before the the modern
48:56
approach and I'm just wondering how the moderns like dynamic therapy differs
49:01
from the traditional approach the textbook approach if you like it's often reported and linked to Freud and that's
49:08
hugely different so I think I think psychoanalytic and psychodynamic gets
49:13
bad press I'd like to say that because what people do is they talk about Freud and it's a bit like no matter no looking
49:21
at a money Morris Minor in comparison to a modern car you know it just doesn't work the traditional Freudian kind of
49:32
way of working would be somebody on the couch for you know five five sessions a week the the the therapist being very
49:42
much a blank screen etc etc modern psycho therapies are very different to
49:48
that it's very much more relational people you know would come maybe once
49:53
twice a week sit facing each other you
49:59
know all of the kind of core concepts of counseling would be there in terms of the relational part of it I also think
50:09
that the theorists modern theorists have have a huge lot to give really so most
50:17
psychodynamic people would be thinking about things like attachments you know
50:23
and working with kind of in their minds we'd be thinking about attachment theory they'd be thinking about Klein in
50:31
oh I certainly work on a kind of kleinian idea of object part objects--
50:36
within the self and and in a way you know the client described that
50:42
brilliantly by saying you know there's different aspects of me and of course some of those aspects we can know about
50:48
because we're conscious and some of them are more revealed in our unconscious worlds so dreams and free association
50:56
use of words you will have noticed in the session that you know the words that
51:03
the client used I would pick up on because there's a whole gamut of words one can use it's very interesting why
51:10
why those ones come to mind and the free association is still there but it's
51:17
there in the way that as the clients and we all the first thought I had was or
51:22
all that takes me back to that would be considered to be free association very
51:29
different to a sort of you know word game wouldn't happen now and so just
51:37
looking at the session and reflecting on the session that you've just delivered can you tell me a little bit about the
51:43
relationship that that you felt developed with that client and can you tell me if you experienced any of the
51:49
textbook psychodynamic dimensions like transference and those types of parts of
51:55
the relationship yeah in terms of how the relationship went I
52:01
mean the session was full the client seemed to talk quite openly I think
52:07
there were a couple of times where he seemed very reflective as if as if
52:14
something was going on internally that was difficult to perhaps communicate or
52:20
difficult to articulate and and that
52:25
felt for me as though that was very much part of a first session that it would
52:30
take time really to build a relationship where somebody's you know really able to
52:36
say whatever comes into their minds but my sense of it was that there was an
52:43
element of warmth and I was very interested and and and and really
52:49
appreciated it when the client talks about the the issues that had emotional resonance really and it felt at those
52:56
moments that there was there was a good rapport really but I'd say it was something that one builds on you know
53:03
and that the relationship is something that develops over time and is an
53:08
incredibly powerful part of the work that I do and again reflecting on the
53:15
session that you just delivered I'm just wondering if there are any specific techniques that were used so
53:22
transference analysis and dream analysis free association you mentioned some of
53:27
the free association but any of the typical technique I think I mean if you look at there was a part in the session
53:34
I think when I said something about how his relationships with other people
53:40
might well be mirrored in our work together that it might be difficult to let me down and that that was a kind of
53:49
very tentative interpretation you know it wasn't necessarily something that was
53:54
happening in the session but I think I said it just to open that as a possibility of something we could
53:59
explore later so my experience wasn't that he was desperately trying to please
54:07
me or that that fitted to any of the relationships we've talked about but my
54:12
guess is that over time if you know if those things were relevant they would they would become more obvious I mean I
54:20
think you know transference interpretation is not something one would rush into yeah you you know you
54:26
would spend quite a lot of time thinking about it experiencing it my own countertransference would be really
54:32
important you know what was going on for me what was I feeling did I feel I kind
54:40
of propelled to behave in a way that's not my natural way and that certainly
54:45
didn't happen in the session but it but you know it might be something that one would look for
54:52
the free association I think was very much there and I really appreciated his willingness to just say what came into
54:59
his mind and go back to those places that felt relevant I think there was
55:05
certainly kind of using symbolic language felt very much as though it was
55:12
there and that's something that I would pick up and I think it's quite a textbook concept really so for example
55:18
the cloak of invisibility I used to help us make some sense out of things and the
55:25
fact that it had been presented in the session for me means it's relevant again
55:31
there are thousands of ways of describing things but the language the words people use are often you know
55:37
really really relevant really important and I think can really help somebody to make sense of something yeah
55:45
thank you very much Tina thank you again for agreeing to be filmed and for
55:51
delivering the session and thank you for answering the questions thank you
56:15
you
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